Interview- (Part-I)
By Ashutosh
Mains results should be out any time soon. Interview is very crucial in getting us the service we want. A brilliant mains performance punctuated by a terrible interview score is likely to upset all our calculations. I think this is the toughest part of the entire process only for the reason that it is highly unpredictable. I intend to divide this post into two parts. Part-I is about My own preparation for the interview and some general DO's and DON'Ts for the interview. Part-II will be the factual narration of my interview as much as I can recall.
PART-I
I finished my mains on November 5, 2008 and joined the office of Mr. Shailesh Gandhi, CIC the very next day. By the time I finished writing the mains, I was so fed up with it that I decided to keep UPSC completely away from my work. I had completely forgotten about it, except for the occasional reminders that I would get from family and friends enquiring about the result. Interview preparation was the last thing on my mind and I had no plans to prepare for it until the results were out.
I still remember the day when the results were out. I was at work busy doing nothing very important. Nitin, a friend from Kanpur, called to say that the results were out and he did not make it. He did not sound too sad about not clearing it. He then asked, if I had checked mine. I said no and told him that I was not free and would check whenever I was done with my work. For some reason, I did not feel any strong urge to check my result then. Looking at my disinterestedness, he then volunteered to check it for me. I was happy to let him do the honours. Gave him my roll no, hoping that I had remembered it correctly. I think in the first instance he missed my roll no and told me it was not there. I was not too sad to hear that and told him we will work harder next year. Even before I could finish, he asked me to hang on and in the meanwhile he looked for my roll no again and found it this time in the list.
Was I happy to know that I had cleared the exam? Oh yes,there was a sense of satisfaction and relief but I was definitely not jumping with joy. Mr. Gandhi, my ever generous and caring boss distributed chocolates to every one in the office. I had to tell him and everyone at work that I still had the last hurdle to clear and clearing mains is no guarantee that I will make it to the final list. Called up home to tell my parents and my brother and then got back to work. But the call did not stop coming. Friends and family kept calling entire evening.
I had already booked my ticket to visit home for Holi and did not want to cancel it. But I was beginning to get worried now since I had very little time to brush up even the current affairs. I went ahead with my plan any way. Went home for a week, had a good Holi and came back all rejuvenated. Next day, I went to Vajiram to enquire about their mock interviews and filled up the form for a mock interview with Mr. Raveendran. It was there that I heard people talking about "Samkalp" an institute that provided guidance for interview. I was told it was somewhere near Jhandewalan and I could get information about them from the RSS Headquarter there. On my way back to home from Vajiram, I got down at the Jhandewalan metro station, went to the RSS HQ and got the no of the gentleman who was in charge of the interview Programme. I called him to find out if I could attend their programme. I was politely told, that I was very late and they will not be able to accommodate me.
I had very little time at hand. I think a week or so. I was beginning to panic now. I turned to my friends and seniors who had already gone through the grind and had come out with the flying colours. I think I spoke to Abu (a very close friend from college days and now training for Foreign Services), almost daily and discussed the probable areas that I should focus on. I also spoke to my seniors Anoop and Aparna and was benefited greatly by my interaction with them. Aparna has been a great source of encouragement and support throughout. She made me read out the answers that I had prepared for the probable questions and gave her invaluable feedback on the same.
Since, I did not even have enough time to brush up even law, there was no question of looking at pub-ad for the interview. I browsed on the net for the recent developments in the legal field and read few issues of Frontline and the Economist. Amidst all this chaos, I went and did my mock with Mr. Raveendran. That was a big morale booster. I got excellent feed back there and was little less panicky now than I was before. After a day or two, I went for one more mock at ALS. The mock interview at ALS was of great help because they not only grilled me thoroughly but also gave me valuable feedback on my body language and hand movements. I had this wonderful habit of telling "that's right sir" little too often. I was politely told that I should not be doing that since it did not sound very appropriate.I got an excellent feed back at ALS too.
While I was happy to get these feed backs, I also knew that they were only an indication of how the interview might go. I think this was some 3 days before my interview. But I was confident now and spent last 2 days going through my mains form again and preparing for all the possible questions that could be asked. I wrote the answers, rewrote them, spoke them aloud till I was satisfied with my answers.
That was how I went about my interview. Would I do it differently the second time around? The answer is NO. Is preparing for the interview in the last 10 days only a good idea? The answer is: I Do NOT KNOW. It worked for me (I got 216/300) but it might not work for you. Having said that, I believe its difficult to prepare for an interview since, it is largely the test of our personality than the knowledge that we have acquired over the years. We can not change into a different person in a short span of few months. Therefore, my advice would be to take it easy, be yourself and do not lose sleep over it.
DO's and DON'Ts
DO's
(i) Please read the mains form very carefully. It is very likely that many of the questions will revolve around the information that you have filled in the form. Please formulate answers to some of the expected questions and rehearse them well at home before the grand finale.
(ii) Do read about your Home State, Home District, Educational institution you went to in great details. Ignorance about any historical/important facts associated with these places is not bliss in the UPSC interview.
(iii) Please know the fundamentals of your graduate/post graduate subject well. Not knowing them is unpardonable. Interview isn't only the test of personality. Very often candidates are grilled on their academic background too. I was asked quite a few law related questions.
(iv) Please be well informed and well aware of the events in and outside the country. You can revise your GS notes and also read the last few issues of any decent magazine. For example: rationale for the smaller states could be a probable question because of the ongoing Telangana agitation. Resumption of dialogue with Pakistan is another example. Knowing facts might not be enough. Try and answer questions like: Does dialogue help? What are the alternatives to the dialogue? etc.etc.
(v) No doubt honesty is the best policy when it comes to the interview but brutal honesty at times might not be a brilliant idea. Certain amount of diplomacy(not dishonesty) might go a long way in improving your score card.
(vi) Mock interviews are helpful. But do not overdo it. 2 or 3 mocks from different places should be sufficent.
(vii) Do maintain eye contact. Be polite (not docile), keep the aggression to yourself, apologise if you have had the slip of the tongue. Keep an easy demeanour. Do not force a smile on yourself but do not look hassled either.
DON'Ts
(i) Do not lie to the Board. Once you are trapped in the kingdom of lies, you would never be able to get out of it.
(ii) Do not give the wrong answer if you do not know the answer. We are not expected to have an answer to every question. Say sorry if you do not know. (I said sorry several times in the course of my short interview)Do not guess unless you are asked to.
(iii) Do not jump with your answer even before the member has finished asking her question. Think it over and then answer clearly and concisely. Please be precise and do not beat around the bush. (no one has time to listen to our pearls of wisdom in extensive details)
(iv) Do not give them reasons to ask questions, to which you do not have convincing answers. For example wearing stones in all your fingers,any visible religious marks etc.
(v) People with bad sense of dressing, Please ask your friends and family to help you choose the right attire for the occasion. Being shabbily dressed is a big No. I remember a gentleman who was not wearing his tie, was asked why he was not when every one else was. I am sure he would not have been judged on that count but then why take a chance?
Interview- (Part-II)
My interview was on March 24, 2009 in the morning session. After a brief wait outside the UPSC gate, we were all taken to the waiting hall, where six of us sat around the table earmarked for us. It took us another 10-15 minutes to complete pre-interview formalities (giving copies of the Board, Degree certificates etc.). I had a small chat with my fellow table mates. I was informed that I had to go first and it was Madam's board. But then we did not know who the madam was? Since there were two lady members then Ms. Praveen Talha and Ms. Shashi Uban Tripathi. Tea had come and even before I could take a sip, I heard my name being called out. I was waiting outside Ms. Tripathy's room thinking of the morning tea that I had so narrowly missed.
I was soon ushered into Ms. Tripathy's room. This was the first time I felt little tensed. The few steps towards my allotted seat felt like a long distance. I went and stood next to my chair and was greeted with a warm smile by the chairperson. That put me at ease at once. I wished her and other members and took my seat.
Chairperson: Tell us something about your prior work experience? How does a law firm function ?
- I told her about Amarchand Mangaldas where I had worked as an Associate with the Capital Markets team. I explained to her the functioning of the law firms. (Large law firms in the country are usually divided into several teams and the work mostly was of transactional in nature and involved lots of negotiations, drafting etc and it usually did not involve arguing in the court.)
Chairperson: Why is it that more often than not one hears law students and lawyers taking law into their hands? Should not they be upholding it? (I think this was asked in the context of some violence at Ambedkar Law College, Chennai.)
- I said one of the reason could be the false sense of empowerment that came with the knowledge of the law and the working of the Indian legal system. The criminal justice system with all its systematic flaws and pathetic rate of conviction has probably failed to act as an effective deterrent and no one knows that better than the legal fraternity. Hence, the false belief in getting away with violence. ( I don't think I spoke very coherently but this was broadly what I said)
Chairperson: What is the problem with the judicial system ? Why so much arrear?
-I said it was an institutional problem. Our expenditure on justice delivery system is less than 1% of GDP. We need more judges, more courts to bring down the arrears. The Judge-Population ratio in India is 13 per million, that pales in comparison to the western countries where it is usually as high as 250 plus per million. Adjournments also lead and add to the mounting arrear. Our lawyers need to be more responsible while asking for the adjournments and judges need to be very strict while granting them. Lastly I said, that we should resort to ADR mechanisms in a big way to bring down the arrears.
Chairperson: You were a member of the disciplinary committee in the college. Tell us something about that.
-I told her how it was a committee that fully comprised of students only and had the mandate of enforcing the discipline in the hostel. So it was a student's body looking after the discipline in the hostel.
Chairperson: Did it work and which college is this? (I think she was quite surprised to hear students at the college level being disciplined by their peers)
-Yes, it did. Most of the people complied with the hostel rules and those found violating were fined which was almost always paid. This was at National Law School, Bangalore.
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M2: How do you think we could tackle left wing extremism in the country?
-I said we need not see the left wing extremism through law and order prism only. It was also an issue of development since the areas affected most were extremely backward and had lots of catching up to do with the rest of the country........(Interrupted Here)
M2: But the government is spending lots of money there.
-I said, I am sure our government has very noble intention but the delivery mechanisms in those areas have not been very efficient. The consequence of which has been corruption, leakages in various govt schemes and very little development on the ground.
M2: Have you heard about PDS and how to make it more efficient?
-I said one of the biggest problem with the PDS was the identification of real beneficiaries and that could be solved to a great extent if there was complete decentralization of the process and panchayats were brought on board.
There were two more questions he asked in quick succession but I can not recall them
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M4: Oh! what a coincidence I share my birthday with him. (I smiled, everyone else smiled too. I was hoping that the coincidence will probably lead to less grilling...:) )
M4: So u r Salil? Do you know a famous musician who had the same name?
-Yes Sir, I am Ashutosh Salil. Salil Chowdhuary was the music director with the same name.
M4: Do you remember any of his songs? (I did not but before I could say no, the chairperson interjected to say something and to my great relief the member moved on to the next question)
M4: You are from Saharsa? Tell me why is it famous?
-I said historically it's famous because of the debate on the religion that took place between Adi Shankracharya and Mandan Mishra, a sanskrit scholar in a place called Mahishi. Mandan Mishra lost the debate and soon thereafter his wife Bharti challenged the Shankracharya for a debate with her and she won the same.
M4: But its famous for something else also? Tell me the name of a famous personality from there?
-I took the name of Mr. B.P.Mandal, the parliamentarian and the chairperson of the very famous Mandal Commission. (Mr. B.P. Mandal was from Madhepura which was recently carved out as a separate district from Saharsa)
M4: No, no there is someone else?
-I ticked my brain hard but could not think of any one so I said, I do not know.
M4: So you have been part of NCC? What is a Horse......(Don't recall the exact word)
-I do not know sir.
M4: You should know. You have been part of NCC.
-Yes sir, I should. I am sorry I Do not know.
M4: Do you like Economics?
-I just follow it from the newspaper.
M4: Which newspaper do you read?
-The Hindu (Later I was told that there were people who said Hindu and they were told it's The Hindu not Hindu. Don't know how much truth was in that?)
M4: Good. So what was the Sensex yesterday?
Sir, I Do not know. (Later i realized that the question was asked because there had been unusual movement in the index. I should have been prepared.)
M4: You should know, you just said you read the newspaper.
There was one more question that he asked (do not recall it now) which I answered. He was not very sure about my answer but fortunately M3 intervened and seconded my answer and the Chairperson nodded too.
I was beginning to get nervous now. Had failed to answer many of M4's questions and he did not look very happy with the ones that I had answered. The thoughts of terrible marks kept crossing my mind.......
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M3: You left your job to write civil services. Do you realize that the amount you were making there would probably be your salary in the services at the time of retirement.
-Yes sir I do. While I recognize the importance of money, it definitely is not the most important thing in my scheme of things. It does not hold great attraction for me.
M3: Why Civil Services?
Sir, the yardstick that I have chosen for myself in respect of a job is:Is this a job where I am able to go to the bed with a sense of satisfaction, that through my work it has been possible to make little difference to someone's life. If the answer is yes, then the job is worth aspiring for. And I believe that the probability of the aforesaid question being answered in affirmative is much higher in civil services than in a corporate law firm job.
M3: Then he asked me few basic legal questions (e.g. What is Res-judicata, About Arbitration, How is the New Arbitration and Conciliation act different from the old one? Difference between Conciliation and Mediation etc.....)
M3: You have said you hobby is reading? What do you read?
-Yes Sir. I usually read non-fiction.
M3: What was the last book you read?
-The White Tiger
At this point, the Chairperson interjected : "But the White tiger is fiction"?
-Yes, Ma'am it is. I said, I usually read non fiction but do read fiction also whenever I find something interesting. (Both Chairperson and M3 smiled after hearing that)
M3: Which is your favourite book?
-Sir, it is difficult to pick one. However, Life of Gandhi by Louis Fischer is a book that I enjoyed reading.
M3: Do you think Gandhi is relevant?
-I said he is. His core values of honesty, truth and non-violence are as relevant as they were in his time and they will continue to be relevant in the future too.
M3: But he was against violence. So what do you do if a country attacks us. Going to war will be violent and against his principles.
-No doubt he believed in non violence but he also abhorred cowardice on the part of people. In fact, during the second world war when the threat of japanese aggression was looming large, he said, he would be the first to pick up arms against the japanese aggression. Thus while non violence was his creed, it was not an absolute concept from which no deviation was possible.
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M1: He asked me something about International Humanitarian Law and Geneva Conventions. (I did not know the answer too well)
M1: Is the process of appointment to the Higher Judiciary alright?
-I argued against judges arrogating to themselves the power of appointing judges and said India was probably the only country where it was being done. I argued for restoring the old system of the executive appointing the judges, with some checks and balances.
There were two more questions that he asked but I am not able to recall them now.
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Chairperson: You said, service was what motivated you to write the exam. But was that the only consideration?
-It was not the only consideration but it was definitely the most important consideration. Social recognition and prestige that came with the services were important considerations too.
Chairperson: Suppose there is a law and order problem, how will you go about it? will you implement the illegal orders that came from the top?
-No I won't. I will go strictly by the letters of the law and will refuse to implement illegal orders.
Chairperson:There will be lots of pulls and pressures in the job. Will you listen to your political masters?
-I will indeed listen to them since they are people's representatives and they must be heard on their suggestions/complaints etc. But I will act on my own, independently of them, as per my own conscience. My loyalty will lie only to the Constitution and to the laws of this country and not to the political bosses.
Chairperson: You may go now. (Did not hear that and when she did not see me rising from my seat, she repeated that again and then I realized that my interview was over.)
Thank you ma'am.
I was in such a great hurry to leave that I picked up the sheet and the pencil that were lying on the table, thinking that they were mine. At this point M4 says, hey where are you going with the sheet and the pencil? They are UPSC's properties. Every one burst into a laughter. I quickly apologized for inadvertently attempting to take away the UPSC property and left the room with a smile on my face.
